French Kissing Life

Ep 29: Unrealistic Perfectionism and Beauty Standards with Hillary O'Dell [Part One]

• Shawnna Stiver • Episode 29

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What if you could wear a piece of art that truly reflects who you are on the most important day of your life? In this episode, I sit down with Hillary O'Dell, a New York City bridal designer who's revolutionizing wedding dresses. Hillary shares her journey from fashion student to successful designer, revealing the ups and downs of the industry. Get ready for honest talk about pursuing dreams in the Big Apple, the magic of creating one-of-a-kind wedding gowns, and how brides often discover themselves through the design process. This fun, peek into the world of bridal fashion will leave you inspired and craving more!

Topics covered:

  • Hillary's background and journey into fashion design.
  • Her approach to bridal design, focusing on authenticity and individuality.
  • Challenges of working in the fashion industry, especially for newcomers.
  • The financial realities of pursuing a career in fashion in New York City.
  • Hilary's philosophy on creating wedding dresses that reflect each bride's uniqueness.
  • How brides learn about themselves during the dress creation process.


Here are some actions you can take whether you have 5 minutes or 50:

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Connect with Hillary:
Website: http://hilandel.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hil.an.del

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Until next time, muah!

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to French Kissing Life. I'm your host, shauna Stiver, and I am thrilled to help you discover what makes your heart race, your soul dance and your spirit soar. Every week you'll get a fun dose of inspiration, laughter and a sprinkle of magic as we explore stories, insights and conversations that empower you to ignite the spark within In a world that demands you be anything but yourself. This is your permission slip to be a little more you Together. Let's shed the shoulds, embrace our unique brilliance and welcome more joy. Are you ready to French Kiss Life? Welcome back to another episode of French Kissing Life. I am your host, shauna Stiver. Welcome back to another episode of French Kissing Life. I am your host, shauna Stiver, and the conversation with this week's guest taught me so much. It showed me humility, wisdom and a healthy dose of be the change you wish to see in the world. As an added bonus, the moment before Hillary and I started recording endeared me to her forever. I cannot wait to visit IRL so I can count her as another friend in one of my favorite cities on earth. Hilary O'Dell is the founder and designer for Hill Dell, a design label based in New York City specializing in custom bridal as well as offering a collection of limited edition ready-to-wear pieces With a focus on intersectional feminism, sustainable fashion and body neutrality. Hill Dell designs are made to feel authentically you. From the very beginning, each bride becomes the muse for her own dress, as it should be.

Speaker 1:

In this episode, we talk about how Hillary became a fashion designer and why she chose the bridal design route. We talk about the beginning of her career and the reality of pursuing fashion design in NYC. We also discuss what it's like for her to design arguably one of the most important dresses in a woman's life and how the process teaches brides so much about themselves. Naturally, the conversation was so good that I decided to break it up into a two-part combo, and I really leave you hanging on another cliffhanger. Sorry, you can't miss our Shania Twain confession in part two, but for now, please enjoy my unexpectedly delightful conversation with my new friend, hilary O'Dell. Hi, hilary, welcome to French Kissing Life. Thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for having me, Shauna. I'm really excited to chat with you today.

Speaker 1:

Yes, well, I'm actually going to start. So in my prep for our episode, I was looking at your website and what you do and all of that, and I'm going to start with one sentence that you describe yourself, because I absolutely loved it. So you said you're authentic, honest and known to drop a few casual F-bombs we do, too around here. So, girl, after my own heart, straightforward and tells it like she sees it.

Speaker 2:

So were you always fearlessly honest or was that something that you kind of had to learn?

Speaker 2:

I would definitely say I've always been this way. I've always been very honest, very like straightforward, very upfront and very like frank. But you know, like most things in life, like we are sort of this way in childhood and then society or our families or our peers, sort of like, start to chip away at these like incredible, magical parts of ourselves, and so I started to become very self-conscious of that and the feedback that I would get on on things like that and I would try to sort of like dampen that part of me down, but it always felt so, so uncomfortable, it just felt so bad, not like fully expressing myself or pretending to feel ways that I didn't. And so I think in adulthood I'm really trying to just be as comfortable with myself in as many situations as possible, because I find that when I am that person that you describe, um is like when the magic happens, when I can, when I connect with people the most, when I feel the best, when I feel like I'm hitting this sort of like magic stride.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, um. So I like, as I was doing my prep, I was like you know what I am so excited about this conversation with you? Because I think that, like, when we get into what you do for a living, people are going to automatically sort of jump to the conclusion of what we might talk about. And I, what I love about that is that that's sort of the theme of what we really are going to get into. And so I was like you know what I'm so excited about today? I'm pouring myself a mimosa and we're going to get into it, because this is my kind of girl. So let's start with you telling me just who you are, a little bit about your story and sort of how you got into doing the type of work that you do.

Speaker 2:

Sure. So I would say, you know, taking it all the way back, all the way.

Speaker 2:

All the way back. So but I think that, like all of these things really kind of play into who I am. So I have lived in New York for 15 years. It's the longest I've lived in one place. It's the place that I feel most at home. Before that we moved around. I wouldn't say a lot, but I was born in Chicago that's where the majority of my family is from and we lived there until I was eight years old. And then we moved to Texas and I lived there from the time I was eight to 18. And then I went to undergrad in Michigan and then moved to New York 15 years ago to go to Parsons for fashion design and.

Speaker 2:

I've been here ever since and I always felt like a small fish in a or I'm sorry, a big fish in a small pond. Everywhere I was very uncomfortable and until moving to New York where I felt like I could really just like spread out and be myself and be a big fish in a big pond and my love of sort of fashion and clothing and creating things really came Like probably w I would say like even as an adult, my aesthetic and my like entire vibe is like I'm a little girl, playing, dress up as an adult and, um, as a little girl, I love to, you know, get dressed and and and perform and and wear costumes, and my mom liked to dress me in very like cool little. She always tried to make me look French that was like her thing With like a bob and a beret or like in the winter, like a muff, so like very like Madeline.

Speaker 2:

So I always loved clothes and playing, but I also like respected the functionality of it. And I think in adolescence, when we start to really pay attention to that, or paying attention to our bodies and the way that we look right, there's like all this new societal and like pressure from our peers as well. And so, um, out of necessity, like we couldn't afford to always buy like the new cool thing, or when it was back to school shopping, like there were years where I didn't go and get new clothes at the mall like all of my friends did, and so, um, I would kind of like look in my closet and see, like how can I reinvent the things that are in here? How can I make the things that I have, um, how can I modify them to look like this is happening on purpose, right? So it's if I had a favorite tank top that got like a teeny, tiny bleach stain on it in the wash, and I'd like lose my mind on my mom, like I couldn't wear that tank top with a tiny bleach stain on it anymore. It's like, well, how can I continue to wear this? Like? What can I put over this to make it look, you know, purposeful? And so it was kind of like how can I change the things that I have? It was a lot of reconstruction and deconstruction. I still do that to this day.

Speaker 2:

I think it's very funny that like these things are becoming very mainstream. I think like thrifting and upcycling were always something that people did, but it's becoming this very like kind of diluted version of these things now, and so it's funny that like that's cool now and that's something that I was kind of like doing in the shadows, like right, I didn't want people to know that this was like I was makeshifting my things, right, um, so that's kind of where it started. And then in undergrad I got a BFA in studio art, so I and that's like in fine art. So I took all different classes in all different medium. And then, of course, I went to Parsons for fashion design and worked in the industry for a number of years and I worked for large companies, small companies, mass market companies, high design fashion houses and I was working towards the end of when I feel like I was in the fashion industry proper.

Speaker 2:

I was working for small designers and I felt like if I'm hustling this hard, I might as well be doing it for myself, and I knew I wanted to do my own thing and I started freelancing and doing custom bridal work through word of mouth, and I've been doing it for 10 years, although I, like, officially launched my business in the fall of 2019. So, and you know, fast forward to today, that's still what I'm doing. And so, you know, fast forward to today, that's still what I'm doing. And so, uh, yeah, that's kind of my little design journey.

Speaker 1:

Did you always have an interest in bridal, or were did you kind of just find yourself going down that route?

Speaker 2:

So I remember in school, when I was at Parsons, like walking around the West village with my friend from class and us talking about, like what do we want to do, right? And I remember talking about bridal to her and to me and we can, of course, get into this more later Like it's not about the wedding, it's not about, like the tradition of you know, this traditional marriage or this traditional wedding ceremony. I love a ceremony, like believe. I think it's like, oh, I love it, I love celebration.

Speaker 2:

But for me it was really this idea of the kind of fashion that I love, which is high fashion and avant-garde fashion and really special pieces. I don't really get excited about brands that are like their desires to make the best white t-shirt right or the best pair of jeans, like the best basics. That doesn't really get excited about brands that are like their desires to make the best white t-shirt right or the best pair of jeans, like the best basics. That doesn't really excite me. And so the thing about bridal is that I always felt like it was like an attainable high fashion moment that anybody could be a part of, that anybody could be a part of, and that's because of the way that our society puts so much emphasis on this event and that people are, you know, women especially are adorning themselves and they're like spending a lot of money, or they're. You know, the wedding dresses that people wear now like do not translate for the most part in a mass way, like for most people, into their everyday fashion.

Speaker 2:

For my brides it does more so, but like, if you look back in time, like a wedding look was just kind of like a little bit fancier ceremonial white version of like what people were wearing most of the time now it really is this very, if you think about it, this very avant-garde, this very formal, um look, so that that's something that I liked about it, because not everybody has like a red carpet moment or like a premiere moment or, yeah, you know, walks in a fashion show or whatever and can and wears these incredible pieces, right. So it just felt like something, that it was something for everybody.

Speaker 1:

You mentioned that your mom loved to put you in like these, you know, French type looks and stuff. Was there anything that sticks out in your mind that may have like like your perception of wedding dresses as a little girl, that may have like like your perception of wedding dresses as a little girl, that may have influenced like you, you know, as you kind of go down that path to designing them?

Speaker 2:

I mean, to me brides are just ballerinas and I was a ballerina, I love ballerinas. To me Ballerinas are like the little girl who made it, like everybody was in ballet and it was like they actually are still ballerinas, right, and so that to me, is like a bride is like a ballerina. So even if you like, go back in time to like the development of like the ballerina's costume and the bride's costume, they go very hand in hand and that to me is like the most early idea of like what a bride is. Is is a ballerina.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what about, like you're, you're working for these different fashion houses? Were there specific things that you took with you that really kind of helped you jumpstart your career as a freelancer and then, as it you know your own, having your own label at some point? Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2:

So I mean there were places that I worked that were incredible, amazing learning experiences and like mostly positive all the way around, and there were places that I worked that were like absolutely hideous, which is pretty notorious for the fashion industry, especially at that time in the late 2000s. So there were definitely things that I took with me, whether it was like cousins, um. So there were definitely things that I took with me, whether it was like um dynamics and the way that I would like, you know, choose to treat people uh or choose to uh witness people treating other people. Now that I'm like in control, right, um, there's also, you know, just behind the scenes, getting a real when you're in school and when you're like dreaming of this thing. I think in many industries there's this very like romanticized idea of what it looks like.

Speaker 2:

So I think getting like hands-on experience through internships and working really kind of you see how the sausage is made, sort of so it kind of dashes, those sort of glossy dreams, but it gives you a much more realistic idea of how things work, how things function, what things actually look like, you know underneath it all, which I think is really valuable and, of course, just going through the fit process, which is like so integral to my business you know, before I wasn't working doing custom things, it was all collections, right, so, and like wholesaling and and retail, so, uh, it was more like there's the design process and then it's like what gets chosen right by buyers or merchandisers, and then you go through the fit process of production, and so I think that that was really, of course, super valuable to me.

Speaker 2:

To like learn that and to watch technical designers and and see how they're doing that, and also to work with, uh, get gain experience with working with factories and communicating with domestic and international factories, was was super valuable for me. Through my work experience, um, what I could see that I want to do and what I don't want to do, and and yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you mentioned that, um, sort of like learning from the ones that have gone before you, so to speak, uh helped you sort of understand how things are.

Speaker 1:

Um, I would imagine too, it like gives you an idea of, like the ways that you can carve your own path, which is one of the things that I love about your design philosophy.

Speaker 1:

But it also is, just like you know, I don't really love that. This is the way that these things are, and sometimes those things are so ingrained that, you know, one person isn't necessarily going to change an entire industry or how they operate. But I think, like having the courage to say, you know what, I'm not going to do that because I don't believe in like that as a you know philosophy for myself, and so I'm going to carve my own path and, in turn, you know, like I think that that's what makes people relatable, like that's what makes people gravitate towards you, because you are standing sort of in that you know authentically, you space, you know by almost a decade or more, like there's not very many entry level people, unless they're interns, and then you're just like Oscar would call us mosquitoes, because we were just like buzzing around, yeah, so it can feel very lonely because you're really looking to learn from these people, but then a lot of the things that they're doing or saying you don't.

Speaker 2:

You're like this is this feels bad, you know, and I think that there is. I think it also depends on the place and the people, but I think places where design was so important and it was truly like we were creating art, there wasn't time for bullshit, there wasn't time for weird politics and dynamics. It was places where I worked, where it was like less, it was more of a product that we were putting out, we were like serving buyers and it was like mid-level kind of stuff. It's like where there's more room for people to behave badly. I think so, um, yeah, it's very uncomfortable when everything that you feel is like everything that's going on feels so in opposition to what you feel like is fair and right and good. Um, and you're just told the same messaging over and over again, like uh, and you're like well, they've been here, they know. So I guess I need to, you know, just get on the train.

Speaker 1:

I need to just like do what they say, or like you know this is the way it is, and you know, feeling like it's not fair or that it's all ruined or whatever, and um yeah, so I in college um I, my first degree was in corporate communication, so it encompassed marketing, PR, journalism, all of that and what I really wanted to do was write for a magazine and, ironically, des Moines Iowa, which is where I'm, I'm at, I live, born and raised here has a very big magazine publishing industry because one of the bigger publishers is headquartered here. But I was very much like I want to be Carrie Bradshaw and I'm going to move to New York City and do this. And so I went back to get another BA degree and so I was already fully an adult. I had a house, I had all these very real responsibilities and the magazine students would always go to New York and visit all these different you know publishers and stuff and learn about the industry. And I'll never forget it because it was like the starting salary for like a you know just going into the industry which very similar You're just getting coffee for people, you're just, you know, doing the shit grunt work that nobody else wants to do was like $26,000 a year.

Speaker 1:

And I remember thinking what and I you know this was. This was back in 2000, probably 10 ish. So like I wasn't making, I mean I was definitely making significantly more than that, but I certainly wasn't making, like you know, way, way, way beyond that. But I couldn't wrap my brain around how like people would make that work. And we talked to students all day about like you know, well, how do you do like that's not, you know, like that's not much money at all. And this is New York city. And they were like, well, I commute from Connecticut or you know, I have all these roommates or I have all these jobs. And it was just like, uh, at the end of the day, somebody said, well, how do you pay for your student loans? The one person was like, oh, I don't have any. We were like, okay, okay, so we can see sort of how some of this is like able to work for somebody. But for the average person, I was like I don't know how on earth you could make that work Right.

Speaker 2:

People. You either have to grind, and that's what I did. I have student loan. I have more student loan debt now than when I graduated.

Speaker 1:

Right, like even though I've been paying it every month.

Speaker 2:

um, you either grind and you struggle and you just get yourself in a hole and keep just digging it out and keeping your head above water, or you have a very different life that is set up very differently and you don't really need the money because your parents are fronting your life or your lifestyle, you don't really have debts and things like that.

Speaker 2:

I mean, there was a very big difference between me and many of my friends, especially when starting out. It's like we would be working until like 10, 11 PM at night every night and I would have to get on the subway and they could take a car home and I couldn't afford to take a car back and forth to work. Right Like when I was my last semester of school at Parsons, I had a budget of $10 a day and that included, like my trip back and forth from where I lived to school, any food that I ate, anything that I had. I was like I can only spend $10 a day or I will run out of money by the like end of the semester or whatever. And, um, yeah, so you, it's either a really uncomfortable grind or, um, it's not for some people.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah. At what point for you did you start to notice that shift? Where you were, you were doing less grinding and and sort of getting more into you know the flow and and sort of building up your clientele and and you know, like moving beyond that place that you were in.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I just had to decide um sort of like what am I willing to do? I trust myself, I know that, no matter what happens, I will. I really have no shame when it comes to work. I find value in all kinds of work, and so I just knew that, um, if I wanted to you know, as I said, if I was hustling this hard for other people, I might as well be doing it for myself Um, not making very much money at all and um, I didn't like say I'm going to do my own thing so that I can make all this other money.

Speaker 2:

It was just like I just don't want to do that anymore. I don't want to feel like that anymore. I want to do my own thing. And so that meant and to this day, like I always say, like many artists with a dream, there's lots of things that I do to make money. So I'm not working. I'm not working in Hill and Dell full time. I mean, I probably am working at 40 hours a week, if that's what we consider full time. But there's other things that I do to make money, like teach and do other creative projects and things like that. So it's like, yeah, I'm also completely self-funded. So I'm like working on a Monday to put money into my business and into my household on a Tuesday, and you just have to be the type of person that's willing to do things like that yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's so the shift between like okay, even like in my business now, um, I think of things like okay so if I'm sitting here and I'm not actually working on, you know, a deliverable or or or finishing something for a client, I'm actually not making money versus like when you're in a job, you know, you do have those moments where you're like, oh, I'm going to take a little breather or take a little break here for my lunch or whatever, and like you're still getting your paycheck, and that shift is like very hard to you know, like make because you're right, Like you are the one that is like if you're not doing it, there's just not money coming in.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and that's like you know the difference between like trading your time for money and trading your like skills and ability for money. So if you are trading your time for money when you're not working, you're not making money. But if you're trading, you know your time plus your skill, like you can bank that in. But a lot of people will get a lot of freelancers will get into the mind of like man, I just made a hundred dollars an hour doing that project and it's like, well, how long did it take you to set up? Like, did you take a bathroom break? Did you take a lunch break?

Speaker 2:

If you spread that out over the course of an hour hours and people, other people were paying you, you ended up making $30 an hour, you know. And so it's not and I don't say that because I don't think people need to like optimize every second of the day but it's also just like, um, you, maybe the attitude is less like if I'm not working, I'm not making money. It's that like I'm paying myself, so I'm paying myself to sit here and enjoy my coffee. I'm paying myself to do this work right now, you know. So that that maybe maybe thinking of yourself as your own employee as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, well, and I think too, like I, I definitely took a risk, um, and and wanted to work for a magazine.

Speaker 1:

Like I said, after I, I left the uh, the magazine program, um, and graduated, and I, I left a full-time job and went to, you know, a part-time role at a magazine, and it was very much a risky move, uh, but I believed in myself so much and I knew that, like, I had the talent to, you know, make it and and have that be, you know, something that that could grow.

Speaker 1:

And what ended up happening was, um, the magazine closed and I was thrust into this very long financial crisis for many, many years, um, but I will tell you that, like, you learn more about yourself in those moments of the grind and the things are not going the way that I want them to go. I just took this risk, like, was I crazy? Like what the fuck was I thinking? But like I would not trade any of that because I learned literally so much about myself. I learned what my values are in business and what I stand for as a human being. And so it's, like you know, I don't I wouldn't ever glamorize any of it or say like, oh, you need to have one of these moments in life. But I sure wouldn't change mine because it really formed so much of who I am now.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm, and how like refreshing does it feel to like look back at moments like that and be like, yeah, I was right, I was right. Like being in me, being in toxic work environments where I'm like this is not cool, this is not the way things should be. And now, you know, many years since that, with like Me Too, and Time's Up, and you know people just calling out that kind of behavior and it becoming less acceptable and all of these things, it's like, oh, yeah, no, I felt that way before and it's so nice to see it now. I wish that these things would have been in place for me then. I wish I would have advocated for myself, but I didn't do it out of like any other reason other than I was doing what I needed to do to survive. But like, doesn't it feel so good to be able to be like, yeah, no, I was, I'm right today and I was right then too, and yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I always say it's like it's my personal philosophy that we learn more in life in the gray, in the nuance, than we do the black and white. Obviously there's things to learn from the black and white as well, but, like those times where there isn't a manual, there isn't a roadmap, like you just have to, you know, sort of like believe and trust in yourself to like do it. And, yes, you're right, like that is such a such a good feeling to be on the other side and be like, yeah, like I did that and like you know, I learned so much about myself. This is amazing. Um, so I want to.

Speaker 1:

This is a great transition, because I want to talk about your approach, uh, to wedding design and your philosophies around some of these things. And this is I'm going to read what you have on your website because I think this is so beautiful and like really captures what I think you stand for. And then I want to talk about that. So you say designs are made to feel authentically you. From the very beginning, each bride becomes the muse for her own dress, as it should be. The traditional market requires brides cram into an available template. We proudly break that mold. We celebrate individuality and believe that it's each person's unique qualities, shape, size, aesthetic, identity, culture that make her beautiful. How did you sort of develop that as a philosophy and like approach to how you were going to work with your brides?

Speaker 2:

I mean, my work is my art, it is my hobby, it is like my talent and my skill. You know, there are many people who are like a doctor, or maybe not. That's not a good example. There are people like my husband who worked in corporate America for 13 years doing logistics and but his passion was like coaching kids baseball, you know and his talent and skill is in that. And so for me it's not compartmentalized, Everything is together and so, um, I don't use any area of my life as an exception to the things that are most valuable to me, the things that are most important to me.

Speaker 2:

This work is an expression of who I am, although I'm designing for other people's aesthetic, but it's an expression of who I am in relation to other women and I, just, like I mentioned before, not being honest or telling the truth or speaking, you know, from my heart and feeling like I had to be stifled in that as a child.

Speaker 2:

As a child, the thought of having to be stifled in what I believe is right and wrong and fair, because I just want the money, is never is feel so, so bad to me and so so wrong to me. I could never just do it for the money and I've had to just do things for the money, a lot to survive, Um, but there is no amount of money that I would accept in my business and in my art, uh, to do things for. You know, believe that when you create something that takes up space and other people are consuming it or potentially affected by it whether it's art or business or a product that you have responsibility over that. And, um, yeah, I just think that for me, this is like a really good outlet to create, carve out a little space for the way I would like to see things be.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's so beautiful and it's just, it's so necessary. I feel like the term authenticity is just very thrown around lately and it's, um, I think the intention in a lot of ways is is right, but it's like I think that, um, you know, feeling the confidence to stand in what your values are and operate from that place that is uniquely you Like I say all the time on the show. It's like imagine if everybody sort of took that approach, like imagine how much more rich and beautiful and kind and special like people's output would be. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, if people, specifically women, were given the freedom meaning like these other things were lifted off of us to just fully express themselves honestly, we could then, in turn, shut off the switch of I know you better than you know yourself. I know what needs to happen here in your life for you. I'm passing judgment on whatever you're doing or whatever. Let me take over and manage this situation or your thoughts or your feelings or your experience, or have even feelings or opinions about what other people are doing. I think if women could speak more freely, there'd be way less room for interpretation. There'd be way less space for all that other bullshit to come in and try to control and manage you. So, yeah, no, I know I went off a little. So, um, yeah, no, I know I like went off a little bit there, but yeah, no, you really struck, you know, struck something in me to make me I like to keep it light, but then every once in a while I'm just like and the patriarchy and society standards on us.

Speaker 1:

Um, I, we are going to get into that. That quote unquote, a hot topic. Um, but I want to ask you something first before we go there. Um, obviously, designing a wedding dress is such a deeply personal experience for the bride. Have you ever had a situation where you helped her find herself in that process, like what makes her unique? Like in the process, like I would imagine that that has got to be one of the like, most wonderful feelings.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, I obviously do this because I love designing and creating things. I love everything about the design process, but the reason I'm doing this and not other things is because of the connection that I have one-on-one with my clients and it is because of how intimate the process is and the relationships that we build. And I would say, to answer your question, yes, to varying degrees, with different clients. One, just at the very bare minimum people learn a lot about their bodies during this process because, even if it's something as little as people don't realize that their bodies are asymmetrical. So I take a comprehensive list of measurements for their bodies right.

Speaker 2:

Once you have something that is on you, a piece of clothing that's on you, that was made to your measurements and not just off the rack, it feels and fits so much different because our bodies are asymmetrical and I'm creating the garment based off of that, not cookie cutter sizing where everything is like this is the sleeve for this, this is the matching sleeve from the other side, things like that. So people learn, at the very bare minimum, that their bodies are slightly different than they thought, or that they, you know, stand in a way or they're, you know. Things like that people learn. I also think that people during our time and our fitting, they have no choice but to just stand there and be with me and, like, look in the mirror at themselves. They can't multitask, they can't be doing anything else. So it's kind of like when you're getting your hair done. That's why people open up so much in their chair, because you have no other choice but to sit there and be in in general and we talk through. I'm sorry, you can probably hear that.

Speaker 1:

It's so New York, I love it. I know and I have all the windows closed too, sorry.

Speaker 2:

Anyway, he's, he's backed up, so we're good Anyway. So so, yeah, people learn a lot, of a lot about their bodies and I think they learn a lot about themselves and especially because the process is so intimate and it is, and it is so long, uh, I guess it's more rich, it's, uh, people will you know, even if it, if it's something like I I said, like learning different things about their body, learning different things about what they like, what they don't like, uh, feeling like they should have done something that gets whittled away over time. Um, I've had brides who insisted on having long sleeves because they had feelings about their arms that I respect and I say, I always say this if, if you want sleeves, I will make the greatest sleeves you've ever seen in your life, but if you feel like you have to wear them and you don't really like them, like let's talk about that because you don't have to do anything. Um, and so you know, I had a bride who wanted long sleeves and by the by the very end, she had a sleeveless dress and she said to me I should have listened to you, I should have just gone with a sleeveless dress.

Speaker 2:

And I'm like no, you shouldn't have listened to me. It was better that we discovered this over time. It was better that in the first fitting we made it a bracelet length and then a three quarter length, and then a short sleeve, and then a cap sleeve and then a little flutter, and then we just got got rid of it, like we needed to do that in order to get where we are today.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, I would definitely say it's yeah, they learn a lot and I learned a lot, yeah for sure. Okay, so I want to talk about your take on the bridezilla term. So I told you when we were sort of thinking about an angle for this show that I loved your take on this. I know you're dying to hear Hillary's take on the bridezilla term and she doesn't hold back, so stay tuned for part two of my conversation. We also play a fun but torturous for her game of this or that, and one of her answers to the rapid fire questions had me bent over, laughing and also saying, yep, that's about right. Thanks for tuning in for part one. We'll see you back next week for more silly shenanigans on French Kissing Life.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the French kissing life podcast. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. If you're enjoying the show, shower us with a five-star rating and hit that subscribe button to make sure you never miss a future episode. And if you would be so kind and give the show a review, I'll sweeten the deal for you. Since you know I live for good conversation, I want to hear from you, share your favorite takeaways and aha moment you had, or a fun emoji that represents this week's show, along with your Instagram handle or email address, and you'll be entered to win this month's giveaway. The French kissing life movement is gaining momentum, and your ratings and reviews play a pivotal role in propelling the show to new heights until next week.